Ground Zero Mosque – Islam – Etc

OK, this will be short, not very sweet and to the point. Why the hell are people bitching and moaning about a mosque being built “too near” to Ground Zero? Oh, wait, that’s right, they are whining about it because they are ____________(insert derogatory comment here.)

That’s correct. If you have an issue with a mosque being built at Ground Zero, you are at the very least ignorant, and quite possibly a complete and total moron.

Islam is, for the most part, one of the most peaceful religions on the planet. More death, suffering and terrorism have been perpetrated in the name of Christianity than have ever occurred in the name of Islam. It comes as no surprise that Western culture has an issue with Islam, since we have become so incredibly corrupt as a society. The majority of the US claims to be Christian, yet lives and treats others as heathens. Hmmmm…moving on.

The World Trade Center wasn’t attacked my Islam, but by Islamic extremists. In almost all instances, good is good only in moderation. Taking a good thing to an extreme can turn that good thing evil, or at least have an evil effect. So it is with Islam. Islam, overall, is a good thing. Extremists twist beliefs to suit their evil purposes, leveraging programming and brainwashing techniques to recruit weak-minded idiots to their cause.

The majority of Islamic people are peaceful, while a small, extreme minority support the lesser Jihad, or warfare against perceived threats to the beliefs of Islam. Majority good, small minority bad…got it?

Personally, I’m Christian, and I believe strongly in Freedom of Religion, and anyone who thinks there shouldn’t be a mosque near ground zero most certainly doesn’t support that freedom, and has strayed far from the precepts of Christianity and the values of charity and tolerance.

The people who died in the towers represented a variety of religions, Islam included, and they deserve to be represented just as much as any Christian, Hindi, Buddhist, Atheist, Sikh, etc.

So, to the whining morons out there…stop being weak-minded sheep who follow wherever biased bigots and rabble-rousing media lead you! Study the issue and try supporting an intelligent cause for a change 🙂

9 thoughts on “Ground Zero Mosque – Islam – Etc”

  1. Sam, while I agree with you that the religion of Islam is a peaceful religion, I think the problem that people have with this is that it just seems insensitive. Because the atrocity was committed by people who did it in the name of Islam, whether or not they were extremist, it’s still going to ruffle some feathers. I would equate it for me as if a group of fundamentalist, polygamist “mormons” tried to build a temple on a formal LDS temple ground – it’s just insulting. I have no problem with a mosque being nearby, but to erect it on ground zero seems a little bit much.

    1. AJ, you kind of make my point for me. People think it is insensitive…but that isn’t an Islam problem, that is an uneducated, misinformed American problem. I’m concerned with reality and truth, not misconceptions 🙂

      If we, as Americans, actually believe in the First Amendment, then we should act like it. Telling someone where they can and can’t build their place of worship (at least in this manner) goes against everything we claim to believe.

  2. Excellent post! I wouldn’t say those opposing the mosque are morons, however, just uneducated and clearly overexcited about it. 🙂

    This is not the time for protest. Americans should be supporting First Amendment, embracing this project, and prove to the world that we can be knocked down, but will rise from the ashes with dignity, open-mindedness, and understanding. We will not let fear stand in the way of freedom.

    Here’s my own take on the topic. *Educated* comments are welcome. 🙂

    http://humansareassholes.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/a-christian-a-jew-a-muslim-walk-into-a-mosque/

    Natina

  3. AJ, actually it would be more akin to the LDS building a temple at Mountain Meadows. Or, even better, some LDS offshoot (like the FLDS for example) committing some horrible atrocity, then the LDS trying to build a temple at the site. For PR reasons, I get the feeling the LDS church would avoid it.

    Imagine, though, being one of those people who lost virtually everything on 9/11. Seriously, how would you feel about this? Your only experience with Islam is that some Muslims, in the name of Islam, killed the people you love and essentially destroyed your life. We shouldn’t judge those who are against the “Ground Zero Mosque” by insulting and belittling them. We have no idea what some of them are going through, nor why they are in protest. Some are undoubtedly ignorant. Others I’m sure are just dealing with very difficult emotions.

    Having said that, the plan is actually to build a cultural center that includes a mosque, the idea of the Cordoba Initiative (an organization designed to improve relations between Islam and the West), whose leader (Feisal Abdul Rauf) has consulted with law enforcement (such as the FBI) on cultural matters — Rauf, a Sufi Muslim, also happens to be a target of Islamic extremists himself as Sufi teaches tolerance. Extremists, of course, don’t like that and therefore target Sufi mosques and followers when they can.

    And, as to Islam being a peaceful faith, I’m not sure Muhammad himself would agree with that since he spent a large part of his career as prophet converting people through violence, beheading those who refused. Might remind you a bit of the inquisition, eh? A faith is only peaceful if its followers make it so. Islam, like Christianity, is very fractured with many branches that have varying views and interpretations of the written doctrine. So whether any particular branch is peaceful or not depends on the views of your local cleric. This is not unusual for any faith though.

    Personally, I could care less whether a mosque is built at the proposed site or not. But I do think it is an opportunity for Americans to show that we have a tolerance that the extremists can’t even conceive of. Maybe some of it will rub off. We have a great opportunity to lead by example here.

    LDS should be particularly sensitive to this as the American people and its very government attempted to force early LDS to practice their faith a certain way that was more on par with traditional Christianity, and persecuted them when they refused to fall in line. Even today, many proposed temple sites are often protested.

    1. Stu, basically I expect of others what I expect of myself. If my life were one of those ruined by 9/11, I still wouldn’t leap to persecute an entire religion over the actions of a few extremists. I hold individuals responsible for their own actions. If I were behaving the same way many people are about the mosque thing, I would call myself a moron as well 🙂

      Islam is, in it’s most basic teachings and tenets, peaceful. Of course, like pretty much every major religion, horrible things have been done in the name of Islam, but that is the fault of radical people, not the religion itself.

      I expect people to be intelligent enough to study a subject before fighting against it. From what I’ve read and seen on the ground zero mosque thing, that isn’t the case. The arguments are obviously greatly biased, and it seems like people are still just looking for someone to blame…for a tragedy that happened almost a decade ago.

      I would hope, by now, that people would have a bit of perspective on the issue. Living in the past is a great way to waste a life. People need to learn from the past and then move on.

      America claims to be a land of tolerance, equality, and freedom, but actions speak louder than words, and the actions of many of the people in this nation show the words to be less than truthful.

      The only thing I’m intolerant of is stupidity 🙂

  4. Sam, I think you go too far to call people who don’t want a mosque at Ground Zero ignorant. In fact, many of the objectors are objecting precisely because of their knowledge of Islam and its history and symbolism.

    Did you know that a number of mosques have been built as symbols of conquest? That the Ground Zero mosque is also called the Cordoba House, the same name given to a mosque that was built in Spain as a symbol of one of Islam’s bloodiest conquests?

    The Koran itself instructs Muslims to build mosques in places they conquer. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_mosques_built_on_land_that_muslims_have_conquered_to_symbolize_their_conquest

    Furthermore, fanatic Muslims could see the mosque as a symbol of Islam’s conquest and be emboldened by it.

    The builders of this mosque are not being very persuasive about their peaceful intent. A proposal was made to help the Muslim group who owns the land find a less sensitive place to put a new mosque, and they rejected it.

    “There was a better way. It came from Gov. Paterson, whose offer to help the mosque developers find another location held the potential for a harmonious settlement.

    But without even a serious conversation, they rejected the offer, reinforcing suspicion that provocation to the memory of 9/11 is part of the developers’ plan.

    It is self-evident that their professed aim, to build bridges across religions, can better be carried out in a spot not in the shadow of the murderous attacks by Islamic fanatics. Moving the mosque would help prove their motives are trustworthy and win a level of public support they won’t get otherwise.” –http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/unshakeable_bam_latest_shaky_stand_JDfYCppVHIc8gX2PNzlGPK/1#ixzz0xHezhCAl

    I would agree that most of the followers of Islam are peaceful, but building a mosque so close to the site of an Islamic extremist attack would seem to many like a symbol of the wrong thing. And naming it something that could be construed as a reference to conquest could be a symbol of the wrong thing. And rejecting even a conversation about an alternate location could be a symbol of the wrong thing. It could seem like they are trying to spit in the US’s/other religions’ eye. Can you see why people might be upset? Why they would question the intent of this particular group of Muslims (not the whole religion)?

    It is also highly hypocritical of the Muslims to stand on freedom of religion when they won’t allow Christian missionaries or buildings in most primarily Muslim countries, and when the Koran instructs them to kill people who leave Islam. These nations have had centuries to change their minds and be tolerant of Christians and other faiths. How long would you like to remain friends with someone who wants to use your stuff but won’t share their things? I won’t use this as an argument to deny them the chance to build a mosque, but it sure does raise some people’s ire.

    How many Mormon temples have been relocated due to the sensitivities of the locals? I don’t know, but can you imagine the LDS Church being so blatantly insensitive as these Muslims?

    I know that we must support the freedom of religion, and I wouldn’t deny the Muslim group the chance to use their land how they see fit (if it meets zoning restrictions), but I think that they will do far more harm than good to their own cause by building a mosque so near to Ground Zero when more than half of the people in New York don’t want it there. Why won’t they listen when people ask them, “Please, don’t build it there?”

    How do you know that more evil has been done in the name of Christianity than Islam? Do you have a source? Using the history of Christianity to show that current “Christians” are bigots is just as faulty an argument as using the history of Islam to say that current Muslims are all terrorists. I won’t defend the moral state of most of the people in our nation, but I wouldn’t defend the moral state of the citizens of any other country in the world, either.

    Relying on the tactics of calling people “ignorant morons”, “weak minded sheep who follow wherever the bigots… lead them,” and telling them to “try supporting an intelligent cause for a change” won’t persuade anyone to change their opinion. Find a less incendiary way of stating your argument if you want it to be persuasive instead of a rant.

    1. Mike, awesome comments. You see, that is why I go with incendiary rants, because it never fails to spark a debate and usually brings out the best arguments from both sides 🙂 Plus, I’m a blunt guy, I call it as I see it. Sugarcoating an issue doesn’t do anyone any good.

      As for more evil done in the name of Christianity, I’m going off of what I remember from history classes and what I could find combing through Wikipedia (wars, death tolls, etc). I would say it’s a fair statement considering that Christianity has been around longer, is practiced by the largest number of people, and has been directly associated with more wars, conquests, exterminations, etc.

      I wasn’t calling Christians as a group bigots, I was calling people bigots, as quite a few are. I simply used Christianity as an example in contrast with Islam, seeing as they are the two largest world religions.

      As Stu has pointed out, the guy behind this Mosque/Cultural Center is generally hated by Islamic extremists, has worked with the FBI, and is the head of an organization dedicated to improving relationships between Islam and the West. Quite frankly I can’t blame him/them for pushing back, because they have as much right as Americans to build there as anyone else would, and the way they are being treated by New Yorkers warrants some pushing back.

      If they were to just give in and do what people want them to do, even though demanding as much is a violation of their rights, all it would do is open the door to more religious intolerance in the future. Perhaps it is a lose lose situation. I think they are being as obstinate as they are about it because they feel discriminated against, and quite frankly they ARE being discriminated against.

      I’m aware that the LDS church has moved Temple sites due to protest, and while I understand the reasons why, I don’t agree with it. Freedom of religion is one of the most important rights we possess, and should be defended with everything we have. To cave to social pressure that violates Constitutional rights undermines the very fabric of this country.

      Quite frankly I think is perfectly fair to call the majority of people who are pissed about all of this Ground Zero Mosque business ignorant morons (OK, perhaps morons is harsh, but ignorant and/or biased is surely fair), because I find it incredibly hard to believe that the people of New York aren’t completely and totally biased on the issue. Decisions need to be made from as neutral a position as possible, and with a clear head…I don’t think New York has a clear head or neutral ground when it comes to Islam (and our own Government and the media are mostly to blame for that).

      Moving on. Could there be an ulterior motive behind this? Sure. Anything is possible. Nevertheless, they have as much right to be there as anyone else, and we have the obligation to uphold the First Amendment. Regardless of what they do and don’t allow in other countries, as Americans they have as much right to the protection of the First Amendment as anyone else, and if we fail to protect their right to freedom of religion then WE are the hypocrites.

      At the end of the day, my argument is simple. We support freedom or religion, or we do not. We can’t have it both ways. If we support freedom of religion only until we don’t like what that means, then we are at the very least hypocritical, if not bigots.

  5. Much better Sam. Now I find myself being persuaded instead of inflamed (although you’re right, it is a great way to start a debate).

    Yeah, Islam is about 2/3 of the size and age of Christianity. I guess that Islamic extremists haven’t had as much time to commit atrocities in the name of religion as Christian extremists! Levity aside, I wonder if the rate is the same. Now that would make for an eye opening study or infographic.

    Hearing that the guy in charge of the new mosque project has worked with the FBI and has been trying to ease tensions does help, but if he isn’t malicious, he has made some big blunders when it comes to public relations! If I were him, I wouldn’t have chosen the name he has chosen, I would share my reasons for summarily rejecting relocation proposals, and I wouldn’t be trying to break ground on the anniversary of the 9/11 tragedy! There are a few places where he could give/compromise that would go a long way in making people feel better about his chosen location.

    There is only one argument that would overcome the freedom of religion–and that’s when the practice of your beliefs infringes on the rights of others. That can be tricky to define. I wonder if someone is going to try and construct a legal argument based on that train of thought in this case.

    Yeah, biased is probably a good word to use here. Ignorant certainly applies to some significant percentage. Moron is probably not the best choice. 😉

    So my summary statement is that yes, we must support the freedom of religion or we are the hypocrites, but I also agree with those who feel this location may be in poor taste–that Muslims might want to tread lightly around what many people feel should be hallowed ground, just like the Germans should probably not try to glory in anything about Hitler or the Japanese should be careful what they say when they visit Pearl Harbor. They have no legal obligation, but it’s common decency to do so.

    1. 🙂 I agree, doing a study about atrocities that normalized the differences in age and followers to find an average rate would definitely be cool…I might look into that.

      But yeah, from an emotional standpoint I can definitely understand how some people are feeling about the situation. However, I try never to look at things emotionally, just logically. Emotion and logic rarely work well together.

      I agree that a compromise might have been the best way to ease tensions…however, if I try and mentally put myself in his shoes, it works out like this: Here I am trying to do something good for both the people of the Muslim community and the people of New York. I know it’s a sensitive subject, but in my mind my intentions are good. Then, though I expected some resistance, I see/hear this overwhelming flood of negativity coming back at me. I imagine I would feel hurt, discriminated against, and maybe even a bit bitter. At that point, I would probably dig in my heels. Soon hurt turns to anger, and I refuse to compromise even a little.

      I assume something along those lines is involved. If that is accurate, who could really blame him/them for being obstinate? Too much emotion perhaps on both sides.

      But yeah, you may be right about the legal argument in regards to freedom of religion. My guess though is that someone in the city will just come up with some sort of creative zoning law that prevents it from being built.

      But, and this is also a big issue, even if the extremists hate the people of this particular mosque and its leader, how will they respond to this if we prevent it from being built? Wouldn’t it only serve to further cement the negative feelings between East and West, and perhaps result in further terrorist action? And beyond that, what message are we sending to the people in this country, our children, and the people of the rest of the world if we fail to uphold one of our most basic and most valuable rights?

      There are multiple issues going on here, but freedom of religion is the trump card. We have to be able to set aside other issues when it comes to defending such an important right, otherwise we diminish the strength of that right and open it up to further degradation.

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